storyOS

Welcome back to the storyOS podcast, more importantly, welcome to season eight and to my
good friend and now officially a colleague at Istoria, Michael McRay. Michael, I am
pumped. This is like a passing of the baton for a season. Yeah. I hope I'm up for
the run. You've done an amazing job running those first laps. Uh, I'm ready, I'm
ready to give it a go. Yeah, it almost, it almost felt wrong for me to do that
intro just now. I'm like, wait, that's not, I'm not supposed to be doing the intro.
Uh, this might be the last one I do for a little while. Um, so give you a nice
break. The people will have you back. Don't worry. All right. So there's two
different groups listening in right now. Group number one is like, what are they
talking about? I've never listened to this podcast before, and this just happens to
be the first episode that they dropped into as this little season A trailer. And
they're kind of confused right now. They can tell there's a backstory. For everyone
else listening in, you know, at the end of season seven, we foreshadowed a bit of
what we were working on, how we had formalized the Istoria Institute that we were
launching a certification program called Applied Narrative Intelligence. We're ramping
up our of practice certification, that's a level two of our narrative intelligence
offering that's releasing this summer. There's been some really exciting things that
we've been working on and dude people have been losing their minds. It's the
feedback has been insane. Yeah, I know we got that email recently from one of our
participants just saying, "Hey, I've been through stuff at MIT, at Columbia,
"Harvard." - We'll stand there. - Listen to all these amazing things. It's like
nothing, like none of it compares to what's been going on inside of this
certification cohort. So, dude, I'm pumped. So before we get into podcast
announcements, how does it feel running the Istoria Institute these last few months?
It's pretty exciting. I mean, I feel like in so many ways, the work I've been
doing in Istoria, I guess naturally it's been leading to this, of getting to do
coaching, of teaching story in college, of facilitating. I'm like, I'm getting to use
all of my background to deliver this, this high value experience. And yeah,
it's been such a, it's such a joy to get to develop some, some new ways of
thinking about things, to get to teach some old ways of thinking about things, to
be in conversation with people from, you know, educators, to pastors, to marketing
folks, to people at huge organizations and small organizations, people who work for
themselves. And to just have this, this common thread of story matters, how do we
use it well in order to make the world a better place? And to be in conversation
with people who are thinking about thinking of the world in that way and wanting to
expand their narrative intelligence is a pretty great way to make a living at the
moment. - Yeah, so cool, so cool. So you're doing that, you're doing an awesome job.
People are loving the stuff that we've been collaborating on and we've been talking
about this podcast and the storyOS cast, as you know, is all about how story is
the operating system of the human brain. And therefore, because of that reality, we
need to kind of upgrade that operating system on a regular basis. We need to
develop our narrative intelligence so that we can understand the underlying narratives
that create those stories that are a part of our operating system. So this is all
things, stories, storytelling, narrative intelligence. And we thought, guys, like since
Michael's doing such an amazing job heading up the Institute and taking point on a
lot of these initiatives. I kind of feel like the podcast falls into that category.
And you've already been a part of this podcast as a guest multiple times. You've
been on our stages, especially our flagship event, Story, which is coming up again
this October, by the way.

October 2025, back at the Schermerhorn in Nashville, Tennessee, a beautiful symphony
center, the lineup is shaping up. We've been working hard on it. It's going to be
an amazing two days. There's quite literally no other event like this anywhere in
the world, but in the ramp up, I'm like, Michael, dude, I think you should take
point on the podcast this season and like, don't worry. I'm not, I'm not going away
completely. I feel like we should hit one of those little trombone buttons right
now. Just so I feel my ego feels better. It's like, but the reality is everyone's
getting an upgrade. Let's be honest.
It's been, it's been really fun to do. We've done, already done seven seasons of
this thing. And to see this podcast grow up into the top, you know, one, one and
a half percent of podcasts in the entire world is incredible. I really believe this
is going to be our best season yet. So talk to us a little about the vision for
this season. What are we doing together? What are you doing on your own? What can
people expect? What kind of you have coming in, let's just cast a little vision for
season eight for a moment. Yeah, I think it's going to be a really exciting, really
exciting year to try to carry the baton of the great work that you've done in
growing this podcast and people listening know how great it's been so far. And so
excited to continue that, but to get to bring in some of my own unique ways of
seeing things and some of the people that have been in my, in my network and who
have been connections of mine. And, you You know, this year, we're going to have
the amazing Annette Simmons, who wrote the Story Factor, which is a gorgeous book on
storytelling. We're going to have Lisa Cron, who's an amazing, amazing mind in the
story world, written at least a few books. The two that I've read that I loved
were Wired for Story about kind of the neuroscience of story, how we're made for
this very much storyOS kind of conversation, as well as one called Story or Die
about stories for influence. Yeah, I think her writing has is ushered in a lot of
the awareness. There seems to be kind of a general awareness right now among leaders
about how we're basically wired for story and therefore everyone's obsessed with
storytelling. I think she is partly to blame. I say this with a huge smile on my
face for those of you who can't see us right now 'cause you're listening just on
audio. She's partly to blame for storytelling becoming a buzzword, right? And There
are good and bad things of that. It's not her fault that it's become a buzzword
and people misunderstand it, right? But she has brought enough literature and research
and amazing writing to the world that people are kind of waking up going, "Wait, I
think story's where it's at. "We need to learn how to do storytelling." It's just
they need to go further. They need to go beyond and continue learning and understand
the underlying capacity of narrative intelligence, which is another conversation for
another day. But I just think Lisa deserves some credit. Her books have really moved
the needle on some things. I'm pumped that you have her. - She's one of those
people that like, you know, and I find this, when I watch like Colbert or any of
the late night talk show hosts who have movie stars on stuff, to hear movie stars
talk about like the other movie star they met, there's like Tom Hanks, you know.
It's like, even when you reach a certain level, there's still those people that you
geek at. I'm like, this was Leesa Cron wrote back to be like, "I would love to be
on your podcast." I was like, "I can just talk to Lisa Cron. This is so
exciting." That's awesome. So we've got those people in our world as well, which is
funny. All right. Give us like one or two more. What else is being cooked up?
Yeah. So we've also got Padra Gautuma, who is the host of the incredibly successful
podcast, Poetry Unbound. It's got like five million downloads. So he comes from a
storytelling background in Ireland is a poet and has worked in peace building. And
so we're gonna have a great conversation about the role of story and seeing it
through the lens of poetry and the arts as well as through conflict as a Irish
person who lived through the troubles and some of that work as well to get to have
that conversation will be tremendous. So there's many more. We were gonna talk about
myth. We're gonna talk about leadership and public narrative. We've got some great
stuff coming down the, down the pipe. So, yeah. - So great guests. Let's talk a
little bit about this format and why we're not gonna be getting rid of me entirely.
Like I'm not gonna completely go away. - That's right. - I'm like, you guys, like
let's just talk creative process for a second because there's certain things that as
a leader, it becomes really hard to go, okay, oh, like delegating my calendaring and
booking my travel, easy like I'll delegate that to Rachel and a heartbeat and then
you have that feeling of like I think I should let Michael host the podcast this
season and then you're like it's like one of my babies so it's like really hard to
get that so I'm partially joking partially being serious and honest and vulnerable
but we have come up with a format that allows us to continue having conversations
like the one we're having right now so kind of talk through through creative vision
and what people can expect. - Yeah, what we're thinking about here is having kind of
a three -part series, a series of conversations, but done in three parts.
So for each, you know, when we talk to Lisa, when we talk to Annette, when we
talk to Padre, I'll be doing an introductory episode where I'll be kind of talking
about the theme and what we're going to discuss. And I'll also be sharing some of
the clips of the conversation I have with the guests. It's going to focus on
hearing some of their background to story. I want to ask a lot of them about the
narrative roots of their childhood. When did they start thinking about story and
getting interested in it? What's the story that led them into story? That'll be our
first conversation. The second one will be diving into some of the material and the
content around narrative intelligence and story and having those conversations. A lot
of it will be hearing from the person themselves. Occasionally, I'll narration and
kind of bring in my own analysis into that, sort of like as a little omniscient
narrator. And then the third part of the conversation will be you and I hopping
back on and talking about what we heard, like what stood out to us in that
conversation, beginning to do some of the integrative work of pulling the threads
together from all the conversations we've been hearing. So we'll get to kind of stay
on a theme for three different episodes with the introduction, the deep dive, and
then the reflection. - Yeah, yeah, and I think sometimes listeners to podcasts, this
also counts for like people who are sitting in an audience listening to a speaker.
We start to develop these preferences for what we're looking for. It's like, I want
inspiration. I want to hear this person tell their story. It's like, I don't, I
don't have time to be inspired. I need ROI from this experience. I need to like a
return on investment of my time listening or engaging with this event. Give me like
the Goods, teach me how to do something. Walk me through, give me the instruction,
right? And what I like about this is, well, one, I would say, it does allow for
the people who put their foot down and go, I have a preference for the type of
thing that I'm looking for that gives them the opportunity to go, oh, cool, I'm
gonna finally get more instruction and more tangible insights from the story podcast
compared to just getting inspired by hearing someone's story. or people who are just
looking for the inspiration or they just want to hear us deep dive a subject to
try to unpack a concept more deeply. But on the other side of this, I would say,
in an effort to try to protect you from yourself, don't do that. Like, don't come
into this going, "Oh yeah, I'm just going to start based on what Michael just said.
I'm just going to start listening to the first of every three episodes." Or, "I'm
just here for the instructions so I can like approach this as a how -to experience.
And so I'm just going to show up for the Middle -Eat episode each time. Guys, don't
do that, don't do that. Come on the journey with us. At least initially, be
curious, open your mind to the possibility of what you might get because each of
those styles, each episode style is intentionally designed to help you experience
wisdom on the subject of story and grow in narrative intelligence from a specific
perspective. 'Cause it's not like when you're listening to someone's story, you're not
gonna get an insight. These aren't like biographical features just so you can get to
know a person, right? The insights are gonna be there throughout the entire process.
So join us for all three types of episodes. It would be a it would be of an
interesting mindset that would say that you want to listen to a podcast on
storytelling but skip all the stories. And so I think if you're interested in this
podcast that it's because you know that there's something unique and wise about
story. One of my, I love the, an etymological tradition of the word story that says
it comes from two different words, one meaning wise person and the other meaning to
see, and that there's something about story that helps us see more wisely. And so
if you're here listening, I think you believe that. And so it's to say, yeah,
there's going to be pieces of each of these conversations that's going to give you
something that you need. Yeah, no doubt. and that certainly aligns with our point of
view of moving from a knowledge -based economy to a wisdom -based economy, like AI
knows more than we do, guys, like it can think faster and it can provide its
knowledge for significantly less expensive. I don't think Michael can be hired for
$20 a month, and neither can I, neither can any of you listening in,
which means if you're just showing up in your experience in the world, just so go,
"Hey, I've got some knowledge, anyone need some knowledge?" You're gonna struggle in
the imagination age. And so information age is going away very quickly. Experts are
saying the imagination age is here. And so we need that understanding of story that
you just referenced more than ever before. And I'm so excited that that's gonna just
be on display fully in this season of the podcast. All right, so I am passing the
baton. Michael, this season is yours, pumped, you're going to do an incredible job.
I'm so excited for the guests that we already have lined up. And frankly, and
honestly, I'm excited that I get to come back every once, every three episodes.
Absolutely. I would not let you go. I want to be in conversation with you that
people want to hear. And I do believe that, you know, as the saying goes in a
very old book that iron sharpens iron. And I think that when we're able to be in
that conversation with each other, some really, one, it's fun. And two, there's just,
you know, there's wisdom that, that emerges that we are not always capable of
finding just on our own, but through the conversation with someone else, something
really magical and good happens. And so, yeah, we're not going to let you get away.
Yes. All right. So if you're the, if you're in the category of listeners out there,
you're like, Oh, no, don't worry, I'm going to be around. And if you're in the
majority who's just like, finally, We get an upgrade to a therapist's pocket.
Congratulations, congratulations. All right, I opened this episode because I'm just so
used to it. I just kind of snapped back into that leadership role. Michael, why
don't you close us out? - Yeah, well, Harris, thank you so much for letting me be
part of this and for trusting me to take, to babysit your child, as you said, it's
your baby. So excited to do that. For those of you listening, I'm Michael McRay. I
am the new head of the Istoria Institute and will be hosting season eight of the
storyOS podcast. So glad that you're here and looking forward to this journey
together. Thanks for being with us. (upbeat
The storyOS podcast is a production of Istoria. To learn more, visit Istoria,
I -S -T -O -R -I -A dot com.